In this podcast episode, Dave Jackson, host of the School of Podcasting, interviews John Ainsworth, CEO and founder of and host of The Art of Selling Online Courses. They discuss various topics related to podcasting, online courses, and marketing. John emphasizes the importance of getting feedback from your audience and shifting your mindset from selling to helping. They also talk about the discontinuation of the Stitcher app and suggest alternative podcast apps. Additionally, Dave shares information about cleared music streaming and its potential impact on the music industry. Overall, the episode provides valuable insights and recommendations for podcasters and online course creators.

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Switching From the Sales Mentality to a Serving Mentality

Today there is an emphasis on selling online courses, but it can apply to any form of product/podcast. We feel uncomfortable when we step into the role of “selling” our product or show. Anytime we step outside of our comfort zone we are going to feel uncomfortable.

I once had a client explain that she felt like a used car salesperson from 1970 (who was trying to sell you a bucket of bolts). So I asked them, “So your show is just a bucket of bolts?” to this they explained how they had worked HOURS on the content. I asked, “So it's helpful to the audience?”

“Absolutely!” they replied.

So don't try to sell them. Try to help them (which most educators find is their main motivation).

You Need to Let Your Audience Know What is Available

John explains that some people will send surveys to their audience and ask what they need. Their answers often include products that already exist and the podcaster/business hasn't informed the customer what is available. Why? Because we are focused more on serving than selling.

Consistently Mentioning Your Calls To Action

I know I'm guilty of this. I rarely mention my book Profit From Your Podcast: Proven Strategies to Turn Your Listeners Into a Livelihood, and I had a friend of my say, “Wait, you have a book?” when I mentioned it. If you want people to sign up for a newsletter, you need to mention it often. If you want people to follow your show, you have to mention it often.

Most Newsletter apps often have a WordPress plugin, or you can just copy and paste code into your website and the form will appear.

Connect With John AinsworthData-Driven Marketing

Check out their website

The Art of Selling Online Courses Show

Free Course

Pimp Your Funnel



The trick is to make the emails that you send useful, helpful, something that you're proud of, something that people like receiving and provides value to them, and it helps you to actually make sales as well.' - John AinsworthClick To Tweet

Technology Recommendations




New Zenler

Fresh Learn

Stitcher Replacements

New Podcast Apps (ios only) (ios Only)

Pocketcasts (ios, android)

ClickFunnels Alternatives

Clickfunnels ($127/month)

Convertpages (one-time fee $49)

Swipepages ($29/month)


Mentioned In This Episode

Join the School of Podcasting Community

Profit From Your Podcast Book

Episode 870 about Email Lists

Should I have a Christmas Sale? (one of John's favorite episodes)


Stitcher is Closing

Dave's YouTube Channel

Dave's Podcasting Newsletter

Buy Dave a Coffee

Put Dave In Your Pocket

Where Will Dave Be?

Question of the Month

The Art of Selling Online Courses

The Future of Podcasting Show

Google Forms

Meta Survey

Neil Hedley Copywriting Course

Ray Edwards Books (aff)


00:00:00 – Introduction
00:00:37 – Opening
00:01:33 – Profit From Your Podcast Book
00:02:09 – The Art of Selling Online Courses
00:03:04 – The Dangers of Focus Groups
00:04:50 – Encouraging Honest Feedback
00:07:06 – Common Mistakes
00:09:36 – Picking Your Niche
00:11:15 – Benefits of Podcasting
00:12:40 – Getting Listeners On Your Email List
00:16:12 – Join the School of Podcasting
00:17:12 – Podcasting Newsletter ()
00:17:30 – How to Overcome Feeling Salesy
00:18:17 – How Dave Does His Newsletter
00:18:34 – Switch From Selling to Helping
00:19:28 –
00:20:51 – John's Favorite Episode of His Show
00:22:45 – Preferred Platforms for Courses
00:24:42 – Dave Agrees Moving is a Pain
00:25:54 – Something I Noticed
00:28:57 – Question of the Month
00:29:58 – Where I Will Be
00:30:28 – Sticher App News
00:32:44 – New Features in Podcasting
00:35:12 – Join the School of Podcasting Risk-Free

Daily Podcast Tips

Daily Podcast Tips! Put Your Inbox to Work

About the Author
Owner of the School of Podcasting. Also produces the "Ask the Podcast Coach." He is also the author of the book "More Podcast Money" and is a regular speaker at podcasting and media conventions.

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